Self-Defense Zone: Crime Prevention & Self-Defense Forums

burninshadow · Newbie Joined: 15 Jan 2010 Posts: 3

I have a strong interest in Krav Maga, KFM, Systema and to a lesser extent haganah(as it seems to be just a boiled down crash course krav not that that is a bad thing and seems to be something that can be learned with a high level of skill very quickly) and am studying each I am focusing one at a time but I am curious what areas each excels in and if they really are complimentary at all. My main interest is to be fully rounded(standing, take downs, and ground fighting) with unarmed self defense and disarming weapons as well as some level of knife proficiency, my primary concerns are prepared deescaltion to avoid a fight and ending it as quickly and efficiently as possible if it starts. I have studied Krav the most, Systema looks interesting and like it would give a good element of surprise but the study i did of it was VERY difficult for me and I am not sure why, KFM I just discovered and I am worried that I am falling into a trap of fanboyness, Russian pride, and new shiny thing syndrome. Haganah I don't feel is complete and I am somewhat worried that I am over looking the genius of it's simplicity. I am trying to gain as much comparative data as possible but given the newness and secretiveness of some of the styles, the vast geographic, cultural, and propose differences in each, and any personal biases, mine or others, I am finding it difficult to truly compare. All of this combined with the fact that knowing everything each has to offer is impossible until you know everything in it I decided to take my question to the people.

All of this said if anyone can also offer greater insight into the psychological components of each that would be very highly appreciated as each seems to take very different view. Both the psychology of the practitioner and the opponent.

I am more than willing to put in the time, effort, and money to learn any or even all of these styles however some kind of direction with usefulness, order, or complimentaryness(yes I know that isn't a word) would be truly appreciated. A little about myself that may or may not be be helpful is that I am still young (23), broad shouldered, only 5'8", and at ideal athletic weight still between 205-215 lbs. and rather flexible.

Also as a total side note I was wondering if anyone could recommend an kubotan training material.

Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:16 am Post subject:

My opinions are strictly my opinions.

KM can be good, but in North America, the quality of schools really seems to vary. Odd, you might think, because they all supposedly train to a standard, but individual instructors seem to differ in their intensity and gung-ho-ness. Certainly the method appeals to folks serious about SD, but if they are resting on their laurels, not doing ongoing research and refinement, not delivering the program with intensity and aliveness, it's not going to be that good.

Keysi, because it's a smaller group, maybe their quality control is better. I like what I see of it on youtube. Good body mechanics. There's something that strikes me as dogmatic in the way they move, like they have to follow some very specific "laws of movement", but it looks good on the whole. It's one of the few modern systems that seems noticeably a little "different from the others" and still seems really good.

Systema? I trained with Vlad firsthand on one occasion while visiting TO. The man is amazing. But his system is hard to learn, and just too different from what is natural. All other effective systems seem to "support one another" in that their body mechanics have enough in common that learning one makes you better at another (including Keysi--their body mechanics are ultimately what I'd call "correct"). If you do muay Thai, your JKD will be better. If you do JKD, you'll pick up MMA and boxing faster, etc. Systema's really unnatural and really different. The payoff in defensive functionality will not appear for years, and will probably always lag behind where you would be at with the others. So dude, it's not "just you". Everyone has trouble with Systema, even the guys who love it. It's absolutely unintuitive.

Kubotans--don't bother. They're useless, stupid, plastic dog-turd replicas that wear out your pockets and the starter of your car. Look up "pikal" (a fellow named SouthNarc has info on this online) and learn to do this with a pen. Or learn to use a small clustered-LED flashlight in a similar manner. Both of those are much more sensible things to be carrying around with you.

Here's what Don "Head Up My" Rearic has to say:

"The best flashlights designed for "Defensive Use." There was a time when the MagLite brand flashlight was about the best on the market you could own. And they are still excellent Self-defense tools...but flashlights have become much more powerful and alot smaller. The MagLite is still the brightest and best flashlight of choice when you need to use the light for an extended period of time, and it is still the best when you need a bludgeon-flashlight combination. It provides alot of illumination and still has the capability to be used as a weapon if need be. It is a great companion to the smaller LED Flashlights in your vehicle and home.

"Law Enforcement Personnel usually have the large flashlight in "The Bludgeon Position." Meaning, it is usually resting on the top of one shoulder, if the light is in the right hand, that would be the top of the right shoulder. With the lens facing the attacker. It is a very simple thing to blast someone with the light, into their eyes, and then simply strike them with the other end of the light. A one-two combination that will put someone out quickly, and if not, you have the light in your hand, you can hit them until they are no longer a threat.

"The King of High-Intensity Flashlights are the SureFire Flashlights from Laser Products, Inc. I have owned a SureFire 9P for almost a decade now, and it saved me on at least a half dozen occasions from being attacked by burglars and easily a dozen or more times on the street. Along with an ASP-21 [inch] Baton, I was able to defend myself easily on a few occasions. I cannot say enough about them. They work on firearms, but they can work in your hand as well if you only do your own research and personal experimentation with the concepts.

"They can give you the decisive edge when you need it. Most attacks occur in low levels of light, which means if your attacker is utilizing darkness [as smart ones will] to aid them, their eyes will be adjusted to the darkness. The SureFire 9P will make you see spots at 6 feet in a well-lit room, at night, the effects are much more effective. If the eyes are adjusted to the darkness, which takes anywhere from 15 to 25 minutes and an instant flash of white light to destroy...the effects are not only dazzling, they are almost painful. The eyes are sensitive, if they are adjusted to the dark, they are super-sensitive, to say the least.

"When you flash someone like this, it is best to keep the Master Eye closed. In that instant that you hit the attacker with the light, close your Dominant Eye. That will save you from being dazzled by your own light and your Non-Dominant Eye will be able to keep everything somewhat in view...do not focus on the light that is blasted onto the attacker. Divert your direct vision from the wash of white light.

"If you think I am kidding, let a training partner adjust his eyes to the dark, remember, anywhere from 15 to 25 minutes...and then have a training exercise in the backyard at night or in a blacked-out basement, etc. Let him have it, then reverse roles. That way, you know exactly what you are dealing with.

"Another thing you can do in the "Metsubushi Realm" is to purchase inert training sprays to simulate O.C. Pepper, etc., and be creative with your training scenarios. Do this randomly so the person does not know when you will fog them with the inert spray. Do not use anything except those inert training sprays specifically designed for that purpose. The liability warning comes into view once again, don’t hurt each other. If you cannot afford or otherwise obtain proper training equipment, don’t train with this stuff.

"What you are going to find with the use of the SureFire Flashlights and inert training sprays in unpredictable training sessions (meaning the other person, or yourself, should not know which "drill" is going to contain the use of light or spray) is that these things work. They work very well. You will be amazed, you can then take that information and run with it. Create your own training scenarios without being bound by them."
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burninshadow · Newbie Joined: 15 Jan 2010 Posts: 3

yes i see your points and i agree i just wanted to be sure i was really being objective. do you have any opinions on F.I.G.H.T. the haganah style. as for systema i largely looked at it for the defense, flow, crowd work, and the ability to deliver those power body wave blows and take downs but my biggest fear was just how long it would really take me to get there.

as i sadly havent found a KFM school in my area and only have access to the videos of which they have only put out the first set i believe that i will remain with krav and F.I.G.H.T. and play with keysi for now.

thank you for the other advise i just dont like carrying flashlights they feel impractical unless you have a full utility belt also the kubotans i carry are steel and spiked(flat topped of course) and have actually gone through a couple of private lessons with instructors i really trusted sadly it has been awhile and i moved since so i cant train with them anymore.

also i am TOTALLY jealous that you trained with vlad

Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:52 am Post subject:

I only trained with Vlad for a couple hours, but it was definitely a unique experience in my life. If you ever spend time in TO, call ahead and make a trip to his school in Scarborough. You may not learn much you can use, but it's like going to see an incredible magician, live and up-close. You'll just have fun being wowed (and lightly bruised).

KFM is easier to find in Europe, it seems.

I know nothing about Haganah except what I see in the magazine ads (pretty much... NOTHING).

If your interest is in self-defence, consider ISR Matrix, Blauer Tactical, and Kelly McCann's "Crucible", as well as short one- or two-day padded attacker courses. You can learn a lot from any of these.
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burninshadow · Newbie Joined: 15 Jan 2010 Posts: 3

thanks again and even more for the others i had never heard of them actually

Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:14 pm Post subject:

Oh, and a word on the flashlights.

I'm talking here about flashlights about the size of a kubotan, with really bright LED's or a cluster of LED's. They can be cheap, durable, very bright, with a very long battery life.

The added weight of a kubotan on your keychain means that when your key is in your car ignition, it gets "pulled". This gradually wears out your car starter.

Using the kubotan as a weapon means that you are exposed to the added risk of having your keys knocked out of your hand. If you then flee, the guy's got your keys, which compromises your mobility and safety in the future.

If not a flashlight, consider a pen as I mentioned. Look up "pikal".
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Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject:

http://www.shivworks.com/PSP/An%20Expression%20of%20Pikal.pdf

"Cap" the flat end of the pen with your thumb to reinforce it, so it doesn't slide in your hand when you jab with the pointed end.
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