Self-Defense Zone: Crime Prevention & Self-Defense Forums

Boogie Man · Moderator Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 43

Are you aware and observant of alternative weapons in your own surroundings? If you are not you should be because it could mean the deciding factor in succeeding and winning in a violent confrontation .

I would like to give you some examples of the use of alternative weapons in different situations.

1. If you are a smoker as I am and you enter a bar and take your seat. Look at the type of ash tray you are using. Is it glass, plastic, or metal? How large is it? How heavy is it? Jabbing someone in the throat with the edge of a glass ash tray or smashing someone in the face with an ash tray will certainly give you an advantage in a confrontation.

2. What am I drinking from, a bottle, a can, or a glass? Throwing the content of your glass in someone’s face or hitting them with a bottle across the face again will certainly give you an advantage.

3. You are in a parking lot. Simply by breaking the antenna off the nearest car will give you a excellent weapon to be used against multiple attackers.

Hubbell · Guest

Car antennas are insane when you hit someone with it cause it focuses the entire whipping power behind it onto a single point only 2-3 millimeters across. I know from experience when someone hits you with one that it hurts like hell without getting hit hard at all.

Guest · Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:03 am Post subject:

Heheh, somebody's got JKD connections. The antenna is an old JKD trick. I hear it all the time, but I've only known of one case where it's actually been used. A guy at an MA tourney got gangbanged in the parking lot, and successfully fended them all off with a car antenna. Deadly fast, great for multiples.

Marc MacYoung once wrote that "anything short of jello can be an improvised weapon--and jello can be thrown as a distraction". Our studio divides improised weapons into impact, cold (pointed or bladed), flexible, and projectile. There is a controversial claim that if you do kali (or Filipino MA) awhile, you'll be able to use any handheld, striking, improvised weapon. While we acknowledge there are exceptions, we generally do hold to this doctrine and have found it to be more often true than not. It helps you to look through a location with a "weaponizing" filter, to see what can be used to smash, stab, swat, etc. This is all part of environmental awareness.

Dude, if you're a smoker and doing self-defence, you've got to start looking at the big picture. Self-defence is for the preservation of the self, and wellness. Smoking has a variety of negative toxicological impacts--cardiovascular, oncological, and neuropsychiatric. If you are a disciplined person seeking to optimize his survivability, putting self-destructive practices behind you is the first piece of the puzzle.

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ash_wednesday · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject:

Other weapons..

Keys..stick them in between your fingers as you make a fist. Heck you could even use a lollypop or a sucker. Having the the handle sticking out.

Use your lighter if you are a smoker. Just light for a few seconds. It'll get hot, and burn anyone trying to attack you.

Use a chair.
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Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject:

A lot of people recommend that sticking your keys between your fingers thing. If you'd tried to hit like that, you'd quickly realize:

- it takes a good few seconds to get them rigged up right, and many other, superiour improvised weapons are more quickly rigged up
- you can easily cut, bruise, or break your own hand like that because of the angle of the keys

Just take a pen out of your chest pocket in pikal grip and cap the end with your thumb. Far better and little risk of personal injury.

With every weapon you have to look at its incremental utility over empty hands. Remember that you do have bone and claws in your hands, and the ability to grab. This you compromise anytime you take a weapon in hand so whatever you pick had better be good. It better be something good at clobbering, poking, slashing, or whacking. Or if you're American--shooting.

A good cautionary example is those stupid fobs: kubotans, yawaras, koppos. You're basically paying $15 to carry a plastic dog turd replica in your pocket. Why not just have a pen instead? You can even write with it? Or a mini LED flashlight is a sensible alternative.
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ash_wednesday · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:19 am Post subject:

Which part of the body would be effective to hit with a pen? I'm guessing the neck, but any where else?
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Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject:

ash,

Anything you jab with a pen, hurts. Jab in the face, neck, trunk, ribs, arms, hands, groin, legs, anything. It will break most holds in about two seconds.
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black bear 84 · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:43 am Post subject:

What about a heavy flashlight? the standard is the Maglite 3 D but at 39 lumens it will not blind an opponent.
The MAG 951 II with its 951 lumens can do that handily, (it is made on the Maglite 3 D “host”) will blind and is heavy enough to tonking somebody over the head.

One model comes with a crenellated bezel of stainless steel that is even heavier by the head and can be used to jab an opponent face in the broken beer bottle move.

The light is rechargeable and free to run.

Another light that can be used for defense is the Surefire M-6 with 500 lumens, this light runs for 20 minutes on six 123's batteries and is used by several entry and SWAT teams and military forces.

The smaller model of the Surefire M-4 at 350 lumens for 20 minutes on four 123's batteries will be the minimum considered for self defense; anything below this lumen output will be too weak to blind or disorient an adversary.

In the UK where "subjects" can not legally carry guns or knifes for self defense, the carrying of a flashlight of enough heft is a common practice, during the day it can be carry in a plastic bag and at night can be used as intended to illuminate your path.

In the UK is one of the least questioned items for self defense, when you usually have to explain to the authorities if you use a baseball bat for defense why you have such a thing in your own home.

Black bear

Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:27 am Post subject:

MagLites are definitely passe. The "white light" paradigm nowadays is to use a small, high-powered, blinding Xenon or clustered LEDs such as a SureFire, with a quick-on tailcap switch. Better than to carry those full-sized night-watchman-style flashlights.

As for the novelty bezels, many reviewers have found that they "chew up" their pockets. They add a bit to the self-defence functionality but introduce their own problems.

If you are familiar with Don Rearic he also advocates the flashlight particularly for UK dwellers.
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black bear 84 · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject:

In my experience of using a light with a gun for many moons, the usual two 123's batteries xenon lights such as the Surefire G-2, 6P, C-2, etc at 65 lumens or even with the upgrade 120 lumens lamps don't cut it to "blind" an opponent.

For that a minimum of 200 lumens is requiered, the Surefire 9 P and C-3 work just barely okay when they are used with the P-91 lamp (200 lumens)

Powerful LED lights in the Luxeon III category MAY work at very short distances, when the range is increase to more than 15 meters these lights lack the power to blind mice.

Lets borrow from a German site that do this under lab conditions.

Target is 20 meter away
This is a beamshot from a Surefire G-2 65 lumens ($34.00)INCANDESCENT BULB.

Beamshot with a Surefire L-4 Digital Lumamax ALSO 65 lumens!! ($160)
Luxeon V. LED. (at 20 meters)

Also LED's are very bad performers in smoke and fog situations (they just don't penetrate) that is why firefigthers will be not be caught dead with one.
Police Officers that use such lights for the first times in accidents scenes, soon find out how poor the LED beams are when some distance is involved.

For such reason and scenarios the predicted dead of the incandescents powerful lights is very premature.

And if is any doubt that 65 lumens even in an incandescent light don't cut it, please observe the next few pictures at 20 meters and compare with the 65 lumens lamp.

Surefire M-3 with 225 lumens lamp

Surefire M-4 350 lumens lamp

Surefire M-6 at 43 yards 500 lumens lamp

MAG 951 II rechargeable (951 lumens) at 43 yards (camera at 15 yards)

May be that for others it don't matter, but for me, when I step up on my porch and look at my tool shed 43 yards away and put a light on it, I want to indentify if the shadow lurking there is a bad guy with a pistol or a nun with a cell phone, for me only a high intensity INCANDESCENT flashlight can do it.

black bear

Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject:

Thx for the pics, very helpful.

To clarify, I do not regard clustered LED's as suitable for blinding--I used the term "blinding" to refer to the Xenon bulb, but my phrasing was a bit ambiguous. I am not interested in blinding--just illumination--and I use a very small lightweight object that produces a broad beam to achieve it. When I shine it directly at someone's face, their functional visibility is definitely impaired for awhile (since their pupils are dilated from the dark) but those who truly want to blind an assailant definitely go for the Xenon, etc.

You make a good point that the weapon of choice depends on lifestyle, which is something I had mentioned on another thread. For myself, 15 m is lots. I'm a city dweller and my yard is barely that long.

Finally, you're invoking home defence, which is quite different from either improvised weapons (the original topic) or the topic we morphed into: EDC weaponry. As far as home defence, yes I agree that a full-sized rechargeable flashlight is a good option. But then why not just wire your home with "panic lighting"--a single switch in the bedroom that illuminates every room, and the yards, simultaneously? Using a flashlight provides your opponent with a target sooner than it does you.

Hope this clarifies.
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Xplosive · Registered User Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 11

A flashlight would be good because you would not break your hand when hitting the foe's head. however, beware! Case Law Regina vs. Jobidon: 2 guys got drunk and due to several massive strikes over the head one of them died. Jobidon was accused of manslaughter, but got away with it. Think you are gonna be lucky enough?! maybe.
When it is a life or death situation anything can be used to cut, break, bruise, and hurt your foe. glass, card, any shap objects can cut through an exposed throat. a pen is a very good idea. If the pen is built tough enough not to break, a strike with it's thinner edge would harm anybody to the point of confusion or even agony. A chop to the liver WILL make your foe pee blood for a couple of days or so.

Guest · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject:

[quote]Finally, you're invoking home defence, which is quite different from either improvised weapons (the original topic) or the topic we morphed into: EDC weaponry. As far as home defence, yes I agree that a full-sized rechargeable flashlight is a good option. But then why not just wire your home with "panic lighting"--a single switch in the bedroom that illuminates every room, and the yards, simultaneously? Using a flashlight provides your opponent with a target sooner than it does you.

Hope this clarifies.[quote/]

In my area is customary for crooks to disable the light and phones wires before entering a residence, which of course neautralize "panic ligthing" and leave the flashlight as the only means to see what you are doing and your target.

I was talking aboput powerful lights of the caliber of the Surefire M-6 (500 lumens and the BOREALIS (1050 lumens) when you use such lights your oponents will be blinded completely (hard to hit anything even if you have a gun when you are blinded)

What you think SWAT and Special Forces use such lights for?

And to end, here in the USA we are lucky that we can own guns to defend ourselves, but in others countries (specially in UK) the only thing that you will have in your hand will be a heavy flashlight.

regards
black bear

black bear

arath · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject:

hmm, in asia the law isn't so tough, I have all sorts of things scattered about my house - metal statues, dumbells, even lamps hanging on chains that actually make deadly chain weapons - as a matter of fact, they're so deadly that I personally feel that they're more chain weapons pretending to be lamps. And that's only the 'legal' stuff I'm mentioning. By the way, I'm sure it isn't illegal to have a metal statue around in the UK - I suggest a statue of some animal like a giraffe, with a neck you can hold and a body that makes a nasty club - or a 3 foot metal vase, if you could get your hands on one, would be great. And as I mentioned before, a dumbell would be a nasty weapon too.

I also keep knives, compound bows, metal maces and all sorts of friendly things lying around in convenient and easy to reach places, but that wouldn't be legal in the UK, so ignore this part.

I think that if your attacker/burgler has a gun, darkness is an advantage to your family rather than the other way around. Better to have the house in darkness, the advantage is yours - YOU know your way around, he doesn't. And you can hear him. At the opportune time, use your flash to blind him if you want, and then break whichever limb presents itself with your metal statue/vase/dumbelll/baseball bat.
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avdrummerboy · Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:42 am Post subject:

I like the idea about the pen. I have a caribeaner (sp?) that has a built in LED light (which I don't use I lost the battery pack in it anyway.) However, it does seem to make a very good makeshift koppo on the LED light end. And my keys are attached to use them as well.
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