Self-Defense Zone: Crime Prevention & Self-Defense Forums

MightyMouse6644 · Newbie Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 1

I was wondering what justifies self defense in this days society? Do you have to be swung on or hit first to not be aressted, and when or at what point do weapons become acceptable if ever?

I'm a big guy which genrally keeps people from doing more than talking crap, this has kept me from gettin in fights I just take the insult and walk off. At times I'm in areas of town where it can get hairy ( bars, night clubs etc.) where decent people make stupid desisions.

I know that not fighting is always the best but at some point you have to stand up for your self. Also if someone comes in your home or vechicle what justifies use of a gun? I live in Kansas where concelied carry is legal.

salty@zoomtown.com · Newbie Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 2 Location: Cincinnati

Legally, the definition of 'self defense' varies from state to state and even locals.
Kentucky just passed a law that says you NO LONGER have to attempt to retreat from a threat to you or your family. Some states require you to attempt to leave first. Black Belt magazine just ran a article on martial arts and the law that covers some on this subject.
It made some interesting points, like using a weapon against an unarmed 'professional fighter' might in some cases be ruled self defense where in others it would not. In most cases if you swing first you are going to have a hard time claiming 'self defense'. If you are a trained martial artist you also have to worry about 'excessive force'.
Turning an walking away is always the best idea. But if under physical attack you have to defend yourself. Common sense and street smarts are your best weapon.

ScottHughes · Registered User Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 18

Legally, self-defense is an affirmative defense. That means that you have to prove it was self-defense to not be charged with a crime. In other words, if you kill someone in self-defense but cannot prove that it was self-defense, you will be charged with murder. This is different from when the burden of proof is on the state (i.e. innocent until proven guilty).

It's best to avoid violence as much as possible.
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Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject:

Legally, the justification for self-defence differs from one jurisdiction to another. I'm familiar with the laws in my area, you should be too. Ethically, again, people may disagree but since you're asking I'll put my two cents in. The use of force is justifiable only when it is the only means to prevent violence against yourself or others. Note the word "prevent"--it's future oriented. Use of force that is solely in response to something that has already been done is retribution, not self-defence, unless it is necessary to prevent continuation of the offence. (This principle is also reflected in many legal statutes.) In the event that force is used, only the degree of force necessary to prevent further violence, is justified. That is, your force must be in proportion to the threat. Violation of this principle is called "excessive force". Again, this principle is reflected in many legal statutes around the world, except perhaps in a few American jurisdictions that are a little nuts.
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yihoshooa · Newbie Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 3

It all depends on YOUR state of mind at the time. Did YOU feel like he was about to attack you? What made you feel this way? Did he assault you by not actually hitting you, but presenting the threat? People don't seem to understand that "misdemeanor assault" CA PC 240, is simply showing that you have the ability to inflict injury, even if that injury is just a slap to your shoulder. As long as you FEEL as though your opponent is going to inflict an injury to you or another person, you have the right to defend yourself. Keep in mind though, most witnesses will have a phone with a camera on it. Odds are that one of them are going to think of filming the confrontation, in which case, be very concious of your actions.

Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject:

I don't know about CA, most statutes have some sort of phrase or clause about whether a "reasonable person" would have believed that they were under imminent threat. So in these jurisdictions, it has nothing to do with how you "felt", but rather should be based on trained judgment. Self-defence guru Massad Ayoob wrote on pre-contact cues in some of his books, looking at indicators such as the level of blood in the assailant's face (he considered red flush to be a non-indicator, but a transition to white as a sure sign of imminent threat), body movements, etc.

The more trained and knowledgeable you are, the more capable you are of conducting yourself both ethically and within the constraints of the law.
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NoComment · Newbie Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2

kai i was just curiouse... well i need alot of info right now..
basicly here is the story,
me and my friends were out drinking [illegaly, we are underaged] and our friend bootlegged for us. things started happening later into the night. it seemed everyone was becoming too drunk and hostile. my one friend [lets call her ray*] started yelling at my boyfriend [lets call him dom*] for not walking with me. she started getting physical and throwing him around. did i mention she is a huge native girl? and he is... well for lack of a better word... skinny. small. and kinda weak. so anyways she started throwing him around and than punching him. i yelled at her telling her to leave him alone but she wouldnt listen. words were said and he took off pissed off [when he got out of her grasp]. i followed him. he muddered something about offering his gf coke [ray* had offered me cocaine quite a bit in the past few days and i told dom*, he got angry because ray* knows i dont touch that stuff] he turned back in a rage and yelled something about punching her in the face. by this time i ran into my other friends and waited with them. from what i heard after; dom* had gone back and freaked at ray*, ray apperently grabbed him again and started punching him in the face continually. he than threatend "if you dont let go of me i will stab you", when she didnt respond to the threat he stabbed her. she let go and he took off. she did not die but she did have to go to the hospital. she is okay now and she is pressing charges [obviously]

i wanted to know if this is concidered self defence and if it could be justified. ray* was prevoking it and let me add, punching her would not make a difference. this girl can take a fully grown man. so a teenaged weakling against her wouldnt have a chance.
also could ray* be charged for supporting a minor and/or aggrivated assalt? or provoking the assalt? cuz technicly she did hit him first.
just curiouse... i wanna find out some stuff to help him out in court and possibly help get him a lighter sentence.

avdrummerboy · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:55 pm Post subject:

That is mostly for the courts to decide, however you were drinking illegally and both sides provoked it. It also depends on local knife laws. Anyway, thats why I don't drink too many good people make too many incredibly stupid decisions.
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hidden · Registered User Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 16

You do not even need to be hit first. If somebody is harassing you then you can legally defend yourself if you feel threatened. Remember you do not have to wait to be hit first.
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kfcfan · Registered User Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 25

Well anytime someone hits you first it is time to defend yourself. If someone is acting unstable or even saying they will harm you, self defense is needed. And anytime someone messes with your spouse or children it is time to defend them and take action.
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hidden · Registered User Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 16

I hate how you get in trouble for trying to defend yourself these days. You are legally allowed to defend yourself yet you will probably end up having to fight your case in court.
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kfcfan · Registered User Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 25

This topic really does make one think. These days criminals can sue their victim because the victim defended themselves. What a sad world we live in.
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sjohnsoncqb · Registered User Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 26

I think if you can prove that you did everything to avoid a situation first before physically defending yourself, you stand a better chance of defending yourself in court.

Both tactically, ethically, and practically speaking, when it comes to defending yourself, I believe the escalation should happen in this order:

1.Awareness/Avoidance: Stay out of places where trouble is likely, and it will rarely find you.

2. Escape/Evasion: If you think trouble is coming (and you should because you're alert), take action right away and get out of there before it escalates.

3. De-escalation: If #1 and #2 fail, try to talk yourself out of the situation. This is particularly important if there are neutral witnesses who you can count on later to testify that you took a non-aggressive stance and tried being reasonable with the guy before the fight broke out.

4. Combatives: This should only happen if EVERYTHING else has failed. I think if you can explain in court that you went to great measures to avoid a situation and talk your way out of it but the guy just kept coming at you so you had to defend yourself, you should be ok.

Now there are exceptions to the rules depending on the situation, but I think this is a good rule of thumb.
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Blowjob Lessons · Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject:

sjohnsoncqb DAMN, are you pulling notes off my hard drive and posting them up here?

Hey folks, this guy knows what the score is.
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