Self-Defense Zone: Crime Prevention & Self-Defense Forums

jqp · Newbie Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 4

Hi everyone,
34-year-old hispanic-american, married male, here. Hope that someone can somehow relate to what I'm writing about ( so please bear with me if this is too long.....I just gotta vent). It all started with a verbal confrontation with some neighbors who live next door to my mom's house. Both households happen to live under the same landlord, by the way. One day, the neighbors-in-question were throwing away some rubbish out in the backyard/lot. There isn't a defined boundary between both houses in the back, so my mom complained about it to the neighbors from her little side balcony; by yelling at them. The old lady and what appeared to be her grandson, yelled back to her, telling her that they got permission to throw their crap out onto this rubbish pile, (which happened to be on our side), and to basically mind her business. The scrawny punk,(about 16-17), all thugged-out, told her to shut her mouth.

I happened to be home watching tv when this happened, and HAPPENED to listen to him talk to my 70-year-old mom in this way; I naturally reacted by running out to the balcony of her 2-story rented apt. and yelled back to that thug punk that NOBODY talks to my mom like that. He talked some shit back..........and we left it at that......telling him I'd meet him anytime, anywhere.... Thing is........the "WORD" on the (pretty reliable) street around here, as-a-matter-of-fact is that I said what I said to the son of a local area drug-dealer, with pretty long and wide connections, arms, etc..., as well as a family history of pretty hard time and notoriously solid street "cred". Anyhow, this punk naturally thinks that he can talk like that to anyone he wants, given his background.(and his "backup").

I recently got married and moved in with my wife, about 10 minutes away, in the same little backwater town that my mom lives in. Everyone's pretty rural out here so word gets out fast, (I'm a city boy, so country living is a contrast). Apparently, this kid has friends in my new neighborhood and I've seen him drive back and forth on occassion. Ever since the incident (about 3 or 4 months ago), we don't even have eye contact, so it struck me as to why he keeps on coming around our house with his little scrawny goons, looking hard and giving dirty looks. I can't help but to think that he might actually want to take me up on my original offer as to "anytime and anywhere" that I gave him. I'd be more than happy to accomodate him, if it's only him and a few other of his fellow goons.........but I think it may be a few more than that, given his "network".

I don't want to sound paranoid, or anything, but lately, I seem to be followed home from my mom's house, (his uncle has a small business next door to my mom's.....it's a small bar/pool joint....in other words, a DIVE. This is in a relatively good neighborhood, however; so it sticks out like a sore thumb. The kid and his friends are always using cell phones with each other; that's why it would probably be of no suprise to me if they were keeping tabs on my in's and out's from my mom's to my wife's house. Could they be staking me out, for some reason? In this area, the people here are NOTORIOUSLY inclined to gang up one person, in case there's an altercation of some kind, involving only two people. I just want to prepare myself, in case that may come to pass..... I only plan to use a simple expandable baton. I don't wish to use deadly force on anybody.........only temporarily incapasitate them. I could be surrounded by up to 8 guys of my height and close to my proportions. I don't have any backup of any kind, other than my own self-defense. How do I avoid this from happening, or how can I prevent it......if I possibly can? Could they be just hounding me, probably showing their numbers and potential force...........against me, one average joe guy???

This is the shit that I have to contend with in the area of which I live......I'm not originally from this area........only family obligations keep me here, instead of moving back to New Jersey, where I'm originally from. The worse that could happen is that I would probably receive a pretty hard beating by these punks, or their associates.........I would doubt that they would want to use deadly force on me....... Confused

(being that it would not be good for business, you know). They wouldn't want the unnecessary attention........that is, if they were smart. Anybody here got any suggestions Question

? I would be much oblidged to whomever would like to post...........thanks.

Boogie Man · Moderator Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 43

Hello, jqp! My advice is to prepare yourself for the worst scenario. If that punk is a member of a gang, that will be a matter of self-affirmation for him to injury you badly in a presence of his mates. I have no doubt that if he plans to attack you, he will be prepared well. Expect any dirty trick from him and his fellows. It's inadmissible for him to be defeated - he will lose his authority in a gang. Expandable baton is a good thing to protect yourself from single enemy or few attackers, but only the gun can solve problem with multiple attackers. Probably that will be no use in applying deadly force, but making precautionary shot might stop them and give you ability to detain criminals before the police arrival. I know accidents when experienced karate or kickboxing fighters got injured or dead - their martial arts skills implied the fair combat conditions, but it's quite naive to expect fair combat from street gangsters.
Don't respond to their provocations - it seems to me that they will try to involve you in a battle this way. Just pretend that you don't notice their presence and calmly pass your way. In this case your following self defense even with the use of a deadly force will be absolutely justifiable.
My regards.

jqp · Newbie Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 4

Dear Brother Boogie,
I really do appreciate your reply and input regarding my concerns. I do expect the worst case scenario; let's just hope it won't escalate to that level. These assholes don't really act like a gang, (not like the organized gangs out in california, anyway). They're more like a "crew" or posse, just dealing and pushing weed, coke, and sometimes smack to the local junkies, (there aren't many gangs around here, only hicks with nothing else better to do). I couldn't agree with you more with the advice and tips that you offered, but I probably wouldn't want to use a gun as lethal force or even as an equalizer. The reason being........(let's hope that the forum doesn't delete my venting).........I wouldn't want to face the consequence of a lengthy jail sentence for a PIECE OF SHIT HEEL that wouldn't deserve for me to eliminate him.........permanently. The laws these days, unfortuantely protect EVEN the lowest of the low..........such as these shit stains. Even if it were in self-defense, the law would somehow find a legal loophole in order to give me a taste of their "justice". It would be a waste of time, as well as years of court dates and potential law suits to speak of. Now..........if it there was harm to my loved ones........I would consider to use the almighty 6-shooter, or cartrige.......and just pull it out smoking and empty every chamber on these MOTHERFUCKERS. To hell with the consequences..........(I'd probably look to get rubbed out by the cops anyway, before facing a lifetime of hell in prison.

Let me be clear on one thing, my brother. I never meant nobody any harm, I live and let live, do my best to make an honest living and abide by the law. I never asked for this situation, believe me. I only wish that I can live with a clean conscience, never having to look over my shoulder, and never try to fuck anybody over, for my own personal gain. I'd rather take the quick beating, than to live with anxiety and fear for God knows how long. I would just like to know what whoever's problem or beef is with me.........and try to settle it.........without running to any cops. Unfortunately, these individuals seem to act like animals..........and my only alternative........and probably last resort...........would be to react and treat them as such.......

I would just like to live a peaceful existence with my wife and a family of my very own, without having to fight or prove myself to any other motherfuckers on a daily basis, just in order to get respect......that's all. If it were up to me, (and I'm sure that you would agree), I wouldn't hesitate to rub out these cocksuckers..........with no remorse to speak of afterwards. Sounds cold-hearted, don't it? But if it's to rid this fucked up world that we unfortunately have to live in, of further evil.........then so be it.

Boogie Man · Moderator Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 43

OK, I see your position, jqp. My advice about gun was connected to only justifialble use of it, but if your local laws are not on your side and you are not inclined towards if, forget my words. I hope, you won't get into real trouble with that suckers. But think about stab protection that is designed for concealed wear -it's not the paranoia, it might be very useful in a tight place. I also recommend you to get strong pepper spray - it's really a nice and useful thing; absolutely non-lethal, but very effective (if properly used).

jqp · Newbie Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 4

Hey Boogie,

Thanks for the advice. The part about the stabbing protection is especially helpful. What about a beer bottle that I might have lying around? I'm a Heineken drinker, so I could always keep an empty one down in my driveway; nicely concealed for such an emergency. I also got an old machete in the backyard that I use for weeding. I wouldn't want to come out weilding a machete in the middle of the street, though......it might be a little too conspicous. I also always have my set of keys in my pocket; I'm sure that I can make some alternate use for them. In any case, I just hope that worse doesn't come to worse........and things die down or just forgotten about....

Thanks again, brother....I'll keep you posted on any significant updates.

Boogie Man · Moderator Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 43

Hello again, jqp!
As for the stab protection I'd like to recomment something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ex-Services-Kevlar-Vest-Stab-Bullet-Proof-Body-Armour_W0QQitemZ320017397658QQihZ011QQcategoryZ50780QQcmdZViewItem
The seller says that such vests are very comfortable and can be worn either under or over clothing as desired. I think, it's suitable for concealed wear. Of course, it's not for everyday's activity, but you can foresee moments when it might be quite helpful.
I don't recommend you carrying machete - at first, such weapons are usually frown upon by police, at second you say that you don't want to cause seirous harm to agressors - it seems to me that in a critical moment it will be a problem for you to use machete. Don't expect them being frightened seeing dangerous weapon in your hands. They might easily recognize that you're not mentally prepared either to kill or to hurt them badly. But such weapons assume a lot of blood. As for alternative weapons - they are usually worse than classic weapons that were specially designed for self defense, but surely better than nothing Smile

Don't neglect a chance of arming yourself before dangerous situation. I'd prefer an expandable baton, a powerful pepper spray and a folding knife as a last-chance weapon.

jqp · Newbie Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 4

Hey Boogie,
Again, I really appreciate your helpful insight and advice. I won't ask how old you are.........but if you happen to be younger than I, you are wise beyond your age; I respect that. With all due respect, I don't mean to try to flatter or to just try to bullshit you..........my words of praise are true and sincere. Either you served in the military, have delved in martial arts, or just have had a solid education in the concrete jungle, (ie, the streets)......I take my hat off to you, buddy.

Boogie Man · Moderator Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 43

Thank you for your words, jqp! I will be sincerely glad if my advice may be helpful for you! I wish you good luck!

vietdao · Registered User Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 14

I'm going to keep this real simple, and maybe people won't like to hear this. However, I think that this needs to be said, and it just might save your life. Preparing to fight these guys is the wrong idea. Think about it. You've seen the way these guys act. From what you have said in your post, you should know that these guys aren't thinking about fighting you fair. Their cowards, but if their thugs, they also don't want to lose face (trust me, I deal with thugs all day every day). The only way they'll come after you is if they've got people, guns, or both...

Okay, lets just say "hypothetically" that they don't the first time. Once you hurt one of them, YOU BEST BELIEVE IT WON"T BE OVER. They'll come after you with more people, more weapons, and somebody is going to end up dead or in jail. Possibly even you. These guys aren't honorable. They don't care that they are in the wrong.

If you are truly fearful of what these guys might do to you, my first point of business would be to try to get the police involved, and tell them what's going on. That way, you can get some sort of legal protection. Or, in the worst case scenario, if something does happen, and you do have to go there, you've covered your bases. When you talk to them, try to get it in writing. That way, if you find you are in a situation where the cops won' help you, you have something that will hold up in a court of law, and show that you were protecting yourself.

See what kind of resources you can use if the situation looks like it's going to escalate. Start talking to a criminal lawyer now, pro-bono or other, and start figuring out what resources are out there that can keep you and your family safe.

I also recommend visiting a site called nononsenselfdefense.com. It's by a former Street Fighter and Gang member Marc "Animal" Macyoung. He explains the reality of street fights, and what can happen as a result.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying that you don't need to protect yourself. In fact, in this specific situation, I think that this would be a smart thing. However, you should understand that if things do jump off, there will be consequences no matter what. Make sure that you are SMART and do everything you can to protect yourself and your family before. Remember, when it's life and death it's not about who has the biggest balls. It's about doing what you need to do, to stay alive or out of jail.[/i]
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avdrummerboy · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:56 am Post subject:

I forget who told me this , gangs are for pussies that can't handle their own shit. Good words. Anyway, yeah if you fight and win they will come again in bigger numbers (remember that they are really big panzies who can't defend themselves.) Also yeah call the police tell them that someone is scaring you and tell what they are doing to you. As vietdao said get something in writing that way if something does happen you can show the police that you tried to get help and do something and no one did anything for you, you did what you had to do. I live by a motto: I would rather my friends and family come visit me in prison/ jail than visit my grave.
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PK
ham radio rules Smile

kfcfan · Registered User Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 25

I am going to have to suggest that you find a new area in the community to live. We do not need this to escalate and you simply become another stat. Move while you still can.
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dr.nicks · Newbie Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 2

I also live in a rural neighborhood and see these kids alot. Im gonna put it to you straight, when you are being followed by one of this "punks" pull over and step over your car with what you brought(bat,baton,knife etc) and see what happens. Currently these kids think they're untouchable, your best weapon is respect, if your able to beat a couple of their asses bad you and your mom wont have any trouble. However im telling you this based on the imformation stating that these kids arent a gang, just a posse(its a whole different story if they're part of a legit gang). Also look into buying a pellet pistol that looks like a real gun, many a time the sight of one of these will scare them off. And if worst comes to worst and you need to pull the trigger, they'll be down but not dead.

If my apporoach isnt what you want, have a relative(brother,cousin,good friend) travel/be with you for a week just incase you feel things are out of hand.